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Todd's avatar

Thanks Mr. Sadler; This talk cleared up a lot of questions I had primarily;

If the Stoics think Wealth, Pleasure and Success are preferred indifferents, why do people desire them ? If they are indifferent then why do we care about them at all ?

Aristotle even says "It is much harder to overcome the difficult, then to keep pleasure in bounds, with bravery comes pain" The Ethics Thank You

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Gregory B. Sadler's avatar

Why people (who are mostly not Stoics) desire things Stoics classify as indifferents shouldn't be confusing at all. Most people tend to desire the things in the wrong ways, and often the wrong things.

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Todd's avatar

Which seems to align with the Stoic concept of desire and aversion.

I am guessing Virtue can often be found in things we consider non-virtuous or unattractive. In the Symposium Socrates says that love is love of the beautiful,

but I believe appropriate love of the non-beautiful can be equally virtuous

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Gregory B. Sadler's avatar

Virtue in the proper sense, for Stoics, is found in people, not in things.

There's no "Stoic concept of desire and aversion". There just desire and aversion, which can take a lot of different objects, and they play an important role in Stoic philosophy as they do in pretty much every ancient school of ethics.

I think you'll probably do better in understanding Stoicism to stick with studying the classic Stoic texts, and not try to mix in Plato or Aristotle for the time being

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Todd's avatar

Thanks...

I actually started 25 years ago with the Meditations of Marcus Aurelis, then Seneca's Letter from a Stoic, and then Admiral Stockdale's "Courage under fire"

"It is Virtue alone that elevates a man and raises him above those things that everyone holds dear " Seneca Epistles

Then I read intensely the Nicomachean Ethics of Aristotle

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Gregory B. Sadler's avatar

Now you have the opportunity to read a lot more in Stoic texts, I'd say. And to not mix them up with Aristotle's or Plato's works. Good luck with your studies

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Todd's avatar

Thanks Mr. Sadler,

I will try to keep them separate

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